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FRED PHELPS: What's wrong with this country and England and
the world is that they have bought Satan's lie that it's
OK to be gay.
Our message is, it's not OK to be gay.
It will warp the mind, destroy the soul, and damn the nation,
damn the nation.
Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka is an Old School, or
Primitive Baptist, church.
DENISE HALL: You know, he's quite a showman,
and he knows that.
They've gotten a big long run out of this.
FEMALE SPEAKER: Make a sign.
God hates fags.
That's all you've got to do.
SHIRLEY PHELPS-ROPER: This generation teaches their
children it is in fact OK to be gay.
That is a lie.
STEVE DRAIN: It's amazing how much Bible a little child can
know and retain.
LIBBY (PHELPS) ALVAREZ: All we ever knew growing up, all we
ever talked about, was the ministry of the WBC.
And they expect everyone to bow down and do everything
they want them to do.
FRED PHELPS: Do your worst!
I dare you!
Try to stop us!
MALE SPEAKER: Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas
presents the Old School Baptist Hour
with Pastor Fred Phelps.
FRED PHELPS: This is Fred Phelps.
Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka is an Old School or
Primitive Baptist Church.
Many people nowadays do not know what an Old School or
Primitive Baptist is, but in early America, they abounded
and were well known.
John Leland, who, with James Madison, drafted the First
Amendment to the Constitution, was a
Primitive Baptist preacher.
MALE SPEAKER: Through the years that Vice has followed
this story, no character stood out more to us than the family
of Steve Drain, the only members of the Westboro
Baptist Church not related by blood.
STEVE DRAIN: Came up here to do a documentary film on
Westboro Baptist Church.
I always thought that it would be an
interesting subject matter.
I went around one Thanksgiving weekend knocking on doors.
Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, asking people what do
you believe, and why do you believe it?
The overwhelming conclusion that I was reaching was that
people have no idea what they believe and why they believe
it, but they keep on doing it anyway.
MALE SPEAKER: 12 years ago, Steve Drain was a 35-year-old
aspiring filmmaker who wanted to expose the Phelps and the
Westboro Baptist congregation as frauds, or as he put it,
snake oil salesmen.
STEVE DRAIN: So then I thought, you know what?
I'm going to go one step further, and I'm going to ask
the pastors, the men in charge, the men of the cloth,
so to speak.
Now, what happened was I came up here to start doing these
interviews.
They threw me a curveball.
I was supposed to interview a lot of other people and then
work my way up to Gramps and talk to him
there toward the end.
Well, when I was halfway between here and Lawrence,
driving over here for my first day, they said Gramps
wants to talk now.
Pastor Phelps wants to talk now.
And I sat down with him, and we only
stopped to change tape.
It was still mini-DVD back then.
Well, I talked to that guy for four hours.
That interview was just so bad ass.
I went back to Florida, and I researched every answer that
they gave for every single thing that they gave.
And this sounded like these guys weren't going to give a
false answer.
It sounded like these guys weren't going
to pervert the scripture.
That's in fact what it was.
MALE SPEAKER: Fred Phelps was born in 1929, in a small city
of Meridian, Mississippi to a railroad
policeman and homemaker.
After the untimely death of his mother from cancer in
1935, Fred was raised by his great aunt.
FRED PHELPS: You want to go to hell?
No!
Get real!
MALE SPEAKER: After graduating from high school, Phelps was
accepted to the United States Military
Academy at West Point.
However, after attending a Methodist revival, he turned
his attention to the scripture.
Over the next few years, Phelps bounced around between
several divinity schools until in 1951, he met Margie M
Simms, who he married later that year.
In 1964, Fred Phelps graduated from law school at Washburn
University in Topeka, Kansas, where he settled with his
growing family and founded the Phelps chartered law firm.
Over the course of the next decade, he made quite a name
for himself as a prominent civil rights attorney.
SHIRLEY PHELPS-ROPER: During the civil rights movement, at
KU, there were lots of sit-ins, and those black
students would be arrested.
And there was a prosecutor over in Douglas County that
would prosecute them.
So one of the first things my dad did when he got out of law
school was go over there and defend those students.
MALE SPEAKER: Phelps took cases on behalf of African
American clients alleging racial discrimination by
school districts, racially-based police abuse,
and unconstitutional raids on African American
establishments.
FRED PHELPS: They couldn't get a white lawyer to go to
Lawrence and defend Gale Sayers and
those 102 black students.
So they came to me.
God Almighty, you understand, never said it's an abomination
to be black.
KATHERINE PHELPS: Their rights were at stake, and he didn't
care they didn't have the money.
He took the time to represent their voice.
FEMALE SPEAKER: Fred Phelps is good at raising Cain in the
courtroom and just about everywhere else.
It's earned him the wrath of some, the respect of others.
STEVE DRAIN: This is a humble man.
This is a bright, a very bright man, who, if he would
have embraced the world rather than humbled himself to the
scripture, I guarantee he would at least be on a federal
court bench somewhere, if not the Supreme Court.
I mean, this guy's a really smart guy.
MALE SPEAKER: In 1977, a formal complaint was filed
against Phelps by the Kansas State Board of Law Examiners
for his conduct during a lawsuit against a
Kansas court reporter.
During the trial, he brutally cross-examined her for a week
and accused her of a variety of perverse sexual acts,
ultimately reducing her to tears on the stand.
Phelps prepared affidavits swearing to the court that he
had eight witnesses whose testimony would convince the
court to rule in his favor.
The court reporter, in turn, obtained sworn signed
affidavits from the eight people in question, all of
whom said that Phelps had never contacted them, and they
had no reason to testify against her.
Phelps had committed perjury, and on July 20, 1979, was
permanently disbarred from practicing law in
the state of Kansas.
LIBBY (PHELPS) ALVAREZ: We started picketing at Gage Park
because a couple of my cousins were propositioned by
homosexuals.
FEMALE SPEAKER: At about 9:30, a procession of vehicles would
begin circling the park.
People familiar with Gage say they see the same cars night
after night.
LIBBY (PHELPS) ALVAREZ: We tried to get the government
bodies to clean up the park so they weren't trying to get
little children into the bathrooms with them.
And it didn't work, so we started picketing.
FRED PHELPS: It wouldn't take much, we thought, to drive
those openly promiscuous homosexuals out of Gage Park.
Boy, were we wrong.
LIBBY (PHELPS) ALVAREZ: We would take out those big,
rectangular, long brown tables, and
we would have picnics.
The law was that you had to walk in a circle.
So we would do that.
The grass would die.
TIMOTHY PHELPS: The first big sign that was made, I made it.
And it said God hates gays.
And it sure got attention.
DENISE HALL: You know, it used to just be here in Topeka.
They would do all these things, and they didn't get
noticed much of any place else.
LIBBY (PHELPS) ALVAREZ: Remember the fax [INAUDIBLE]?
I'm surprised they didn't hand deliver it before that.
DENISE HALL: And they would send out these horrific faxes
about people, and if anybody would say anything about them,
they would send out more faxes about people.
And it got to be--
in our office, when my husband was alive, we'd get these
faxes in, and he would just turn around and fax
them back to them.
Then it got to the place where they would shut off their fax
machine when they would send these faxes out.
And he'd try to fax them back, and they'd turn the fax
machine off.
So then we couldn't fax them back.
TIM PHELPS: Yeah, they sent out underground picket
schedule, weekly picket schedule.
And at my house, they would print it off and post it in
the kitchen.
You knew where you had to be, if you were supposed to go,
and whatnot.
FRED PHELPS: I would that free grace were more preached
because it gives men something to believe with confidence.
The great mass of professing Christians
know nothing of doctrine.
Their religion consists in going a certain number of
times to a place of worship.
But they have no care for truth one way or another.
I speak without any prejudice in this matter.
TIM PHELPS: 2004, 2005, it's right where it's hitting big
on God hates America.
No 4th of July, none of the other stuff
that we used to do.
LIBBY (PHELPS) ALVAREZ: Then they started ramping up with
the military, and the picketing the funerals, and
things like that.
Everything started ramping up and getting
more and more extreme.
MALE SPEAKER: In 2006, Westboro organized a picket at
the Westminster, Maryland funeral of Matthew Snyder, the
US Marine who was killed in Iraq, featuring banners
stating thank God for dead soldiers.
They soon found themselves back in court when a lawsuit
was filed shortly after by Albert Snyder, the deceased
Marine's father.
Snyder won a $10.9 million judgment against the Westboro
Baptist Church.
FEMALE SPEAKER: We thank God for the $10.9.
FEMALE SPEAKER: The $10.9.
FEMALE SPEAKER: The $10.9 million.
CHILDREN: Thank God for $10.9 million.
FEMALE SPEAKER: I thank God for the $10.9 million verdict
because it's a small price to pay to get this message,
America is doomed, in front of the eyes of whole world.
You can't pay for worldwide publicity that cheap.
MALE SPEAKER: The Snyder lawsuit, if your appeals are
exhausted, will you willingly pay the damages?
SHIRLEY PHELPS-ROPER: No.
No.
Here's what you need to do.
You need to forget that lawsuit.
That lawsuit has a purpose.
This nation intended it unto us for evil, but God intends
it unto us for good.
MALE SPEAKER: In 2011, the US Supreme Court decided eight to
one that Westboro's actions constituted protected free
speech, and the judgment was overturned.
Albert Snyder was later ordered to pay Westboro's
legal costs.
SHIRLEY PHELPS-ROPER: If it wasn't for the fact that I
believe every word of those scriptures and I know
everything that our God does is proper and perfect and
righteous, I'd almost feel sorry for those people.
FEMALE SPEAKER: Recorded yesterday at 5:06.
MALE SPEAKER: You fucking piece of shit cocksuckers.
I don't give a fuck if you're a bunch of lawyers or not.
I'm telling you now, the next time I hear of you desecrating
a soldier, the whole lot of you are going to fucking die.
I'll fucking stick a bomb in every fucking house you own.
I'll fucking blow up the law office, and I'll fucking cut
your fucking neck, Fred Phelps.
MALE SPEAKER: It was during the editing of his
documentary, "Hatemongers" that Steve claims he underwent
a supernatural conversion.
After much thought, contemplation, and discussions
with his wife Luci, Steve packed up his two daughters,
Taylor and Lauren, and moved the family to Topeka, Kansas.
STEVE DRAIN: They both play piano.
The banjo and cool hat's cooler for pictures.
She's starting to play a little guitar.
I play guitar.
When we bought this house, it was in pretty rough shape, but
the location was great.
So you know, we wanted to be by the church.
So little by little, we've changed it up.
We like to kind of keep it kind of colorful.
We've got our little signs of the times deal there.
We went to Sundance Film Festival in Utah, and we were
picketing Kevin Smith, "Red State." At Sundance, when we
were over there fussing at Kevin Smith, I told those
fags-- they came over there-- and I told those fags, because
they were asking me mockingly, how do I go to heaven, Steve?
I said, take a piece of barbed wire, could be sharp, could be
rusted, I don't care, and lop your junk off.
Do a lot of editing in there.
Do a lot of the website work in there.
It's kind of messy.
And the living room here.
Matter of fact, last time Louis Theroux was here, this
is where I showed Louis Theroux the really bad Jew
parody video with the guys with the little [INAUDIBLE].
You never saw that?
Two Jews fighting over a penny.
Got to do something.
Check this out.
MALE SPEAKER: All right, welcome back.
So now, joining us live via satellite, [INAUDIBLE].
MALE SPEAKER: I'm real sorry about what happened to your
son, Mr. Snyder, and I assure you, God had
nothing to do with it.
JOE STRAMOWSKI: Your Joel Osteen kinda sounds like a
George W Bush.
STEVE DRAIN: I know.
I just use what I got, dude.
JOE STRAMOWSKI: It's a good George W Bush.
MALE SPEAKER: Since making his profession of faith and
accepting Baptism into the Westboro Baptist church fold,
Steve has since become its Public Information Officer,
basically its propaganda minister in chief.
MALE SPEAKER: [SINGING]
Shame taught your children God's a liar.
Shame made [INAUDIBLE]
STEVE DRAIN: Well, the way we do it is
we're writing parodies.
So we're trying to replace those lyrics with lyrics that
are Biblically sound.
Of course, it has to fit a hook.
FEMALE SPEAKER: Check them out now.
FEMALE SPEAKER: [SINGING]
Pimpin' on your G-O-D.
FEMALE SPEAKER: [SINGING]
God's gonna stand there and watch you burn.
But that's all right because you wouldn't heed His word.
STEVE DRAIN: When we make our choices of songs, that really
revolves around mostly popularity.
It's mostly mainstream stuff.
The whole idea of our doing parodies is to preach.
So we're trying to get as many ears on songs, as many eyes on
videos as possible.
Well, we have the Feel Good Inc. We did Fear God.
MALE SPEAKER: [SINGING]
Don't stop.
Get it.
It's only [INAUDIBLE]
Watch as God annihilates.
Ha ha ha ha ha.
STEVE DRAIN: Sometimes a classic thing like the
Beatles, you know.
MALE SPEAKER: [SINGING] [INAUDIBLE]
the Jews.
[INAUDIBLE] the Jews.
STEVE DRAIN: We did Michael Jackson for a little while
around the time that he died.
That was kind of a big thing.
Most of what people got mad at us for was we were using
"Thriller" dance moves for "Beat It" and "Bad" parodies.
It's just, that's kind of a cool thing to do.
So they were like chasing us for that.
We were like, really?
Yeah, we know that.
FRED PHELPS: You taught these kids from the time they
started school that it's OK to be gay.
So therefore, you busted their moral compass.
The same God that said thou shall not kill said thou shall
not lie with mankind as a womankind, and affixed the
death penalty for both sins.
And you taught them that God didn't mean what he said about
one, so if it's OK to be gay, it's OK to kill.
STEVE DRAIN: Hey, I got an idea.
Let's rip the babies out of the wombs of these fool
American women on the back of their fornication.
And then let's break the moral compasses of the kids that do
end up getting born, raise them up for the devil, and
then hand them a gun and go send them off to fight bloody
wars that we have no business fighting in the first place,
and we certainly can't win.
SHIRLEY PHELPS-ROPER: You sit them in your homes, in your
classrooms, in your so-called churches, and you teach them
rebellion against the standards of God.
STEVE DRAIN: Look, when we take these kids out on these
picket lines, they see the difference.
The mind starts working pretty early.
They see the difference between the way we conduct
ourselves and how we cleave to the scripture.
We're sinners like anybody else.
But the main difference between God's elect and the
reprobate is we're ashamed of our sin.
We're not proud of it.
We don't want to continue it.
We want to stop it.
SHIRLEY PHELPS-ROPER: This generation has taught these
children it is in fact OK to have sex early, often, with
anyone you want to, or any animal that you want to.
There is special anger from God about what you do with
your children because the scripture
says they know nothing.
FRED PHELPS: And all such gifts as accompany salvation
are reserved by that same sovereign God for
his sheep, his elect.
MALE SPEAKER: Shouldn't they have the chance to decide
first, before they're out here?
REBEKAH PHELPS-DAVIS: That's like saying--
that's like if you were to ask me, shouldn't they have a
right to decide whether they should go to school and learn
before you send them to school to learn?
I mean, this is more important even than that.
MALE SPEAKER: Any one of these children, when they're a
little bit older, if they decide that this is not
something that they want to be a part of, will
they still be allowed--
are they still going to be a member of these families, a
member of this community?
REBEKAH PHELPS-DAVIS: Don't you understand that if they do
not believe this message that the Lord our God has given us,
there isn't going to be a discussion about how can I
stay, even if I don't believe the way you do.
They will naturally go.
They will just go.
LIBBY (PHELPS) ALVAREZ: I was there for almost 26 years.
I left a month before my 26th birthday.
And talking about childhood, we started picketing when I
was eight years old.
We thought it was great.
FEMALE SPEAKER: I just want the American public to know
that with Barack Obama as your president, he's going to lead
this nation to its final destruction.
STEVE DRAIN: We understand it's not like
you flip the switch.
It's not like you prepare the kids, prepare the kids,
prepare the kids, and then it happens to them.
It's happening to them all along.
I mean, these kids go to the elementary school, and they're
thought of as walking picket signs.
LIBBY (PHELPS) ALVAREZ: Yeah, because we're supposed to be a
testament to the other kids in there.
Every time anybody looked at us, all they would be thinking
is God hates fags.
TIM PHELPS: That word, yeah.
Those words.
LIBBY (PHELPS) ALVAREZ: And you're going to hell.
Because you have to do everything that they want.
They have absolute control over everything.
And if you don't do what they want, then
you are out of there.
Whenever somebody gets in trouble, we can't
talk to them at all.
TIM PHELPS: It's like isolation.
LIBBY (PHELPS) ALVAREZ: Yeah.
It's ridiculous.
STEVE DRAIN: Well, I mean, they'll
definitely question things.
Any kid will question things.
But your job is to raise somebody in the nurturing
[INAUDIBLE] the Lord.
There's a big difference, Joe, between questioning things,
the natural inquisitive nature, versus doing that from
a Bible perspective.
TIM PHELPS: The expectations for us were higher, or were
really high for grades and how you act in school.
And so that also is you're the walking picket sign for those
words, along with this perfect student child.
LIBBY (PHELPS) ALVAREZ: Oh, yeah.
Exactly.
That's definitely it.
Yeah, they wanted people to hate us.
And we were told that everyone was going to hate us.
And if anyone acted like they were our friends--
TIM PHELPS: They were lying.
LIBBY (PHELPS) ALVAREZ: Yeah, exactly.
In their heart, they really hate us.
In the back of my mind, I'd always be worried about what
my family thought.
Like if I got put on the news, I would worry about what they
would think I was saying, and try to please them.
If there was a car ride, or if we were on an airplane, we
would talk about why we were picketing somewhere.
So we would all have the same answer because they were real
big on everyone's of one mind and one accord.
So we all have to say the same thing.
STEVE DRAIN: Let's just take a broad view of America from a
Bible perspective.
TAYLOR DRAIN: All of these things that are happening
today, all these shootings, they're from God's hand.
SHIRLEY PHELPS-ROPER: God sent the shooters.
MARGE PHELPS: So now there's been a rash of shooters.
STEVE DRAIN: God says, thou shall not lie with--
SHIRLEY PHELPS-ROPER: Mankind as with womankind.
FRED PHELPS: It is an abomination.
SHIRLEY PHELPS-ROPER: Global warming.
MARGE PHELPS: And hurricanes and floods.
STEVE DRAIN: God says no divorce, no remarriage.
SHIRLEY PHELPS-ROPER: You are living in adultery.
STEVE DRAIN: It's OK to be gay.
SHIRLEY PHELPS-ROPER: It is in fact OK to be gay.
We're entitled to do what we want with our own bodies.
MARGE PHELPS: That's like the killer saying, I killed
someone last night, but God forgives me.
I'm going to go kill someone again tonight, but God
forgives me.
TIM PHELPS: And I know with the little,
younger kids, they would--
what does this sign mean?
And they would explain it to them.
And then so you have these even younger kids who can just
spit off these words that they probably don't even
understand.
LIBBY (PHELPS) ALVAREZ: It wasn't a very pleasant place
to live, even though they act like it's the most wonderful
place on earth.
TIM PHELPS: Well, to them it probably is.
LIBBY (PHELPS) ALVAREZ: That's a little bit ridiculous.
JOE STRAMOWSKI: Let's just talk general politics.
Who's your pick for November?
STEVE DRAIN: Well, did you ever see that "South Park"
episode, "Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich?"
JOE STRAMOWSKI: Yes.
STEVE DRAIN: That's what the deal is because there really
isn't a good choice.
I mean, there wouldn't be any Advocate magazine if a
righteous man were leading this nation.
You would literally have to shut down whole agencies of
government.
You wouldn't be able to promise billions of dollars
internationally to help fund abortions, for instance.
You wouldn't be able to do that at all.
You'd have to end AIDS research.
You'd have to re- institute the death penalty for
homosexuality.
DENISE HALL: That's just something that Fred can say
that's so outlandish that he can go, oh, I'm going to push
somebody else's button.
STEVE DRAIN: So that's why I said to you a little earlier,
I got a little eye raise even out of you, Joe.
You kind of have ice water in your veins about stuff.
But you even raised an eyebrow when I said they'd have to
re-institute the death penalty for fags.
That's what the Bible says.
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